Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 16:46:11 -0400 Reply-To: Maryland Birds & Birding Sender: Maryland Birds & Birding From: Tom Dunne Subject: Re: Open season on Horseshoe Crabbers & Birders? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I love watching birds. I love being in nature. I even might like to hug a Horseshoe crab. But I've found that I really don't like most birders, most "Mother Nature" types, and this recent thread (along with the Feral Cat thread) are the reasons why. I was pleased to see Maryanne's response, which points the finger at the real problem with all that's wrong with the man vs. nature argument. It's people who have so damn much that they sit high in their ivory towers looking down on humanity, yet forget that they are part of it, and degrade the lives of fishermen, loggers, and the like, by placing the welfare of crabs above them. And to make such ignorant statements such as: "People can (and should) do something else for a living than cut down old growth forest and harvest horseshoe crabs. So they have to be retrained. Anybody can be retrained. Even me. We do have programs for displaced workers in this country." makes me ask myself if I want to be associated with other "birders". Birds, crabs, heck, even trees are important. But not as important as the welfare of "PEOPLE". You know, if all of you tree-huggers (or "crab-huggers") out there took all the money and time that you put into "saving nature" and put it into "saving people" (read "Jerry, go volunteer time/money to retrain that 5th generation fisherman to become a lawyer") then maybe there would be a raised consciousness about the lesser problems in this world, like saving horseshoe crabs. Heck, then once he's a lawyer, then he, too (like you) can afford to spend thousands of dollars on hobbies. Right now, he's just trying to figure out how to feed his kids. tom. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maryanne Dolan" To: Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [MDOSPREY] Open season on Horseshoe Crabbers & Birders? > My problem with your position, Jerry, is that it places the onus on certain > segments of society - in particular those who have limited alternatives in > making a living. The problem is not limited to horseshoe crabs, or house > cats, or even feral cats - the problem is all of us and our lifestyle. And > I don't think we can pinpoint segments - like fisherman or loggers - and > say - "You! You're the one causing the problem and you're the one who has to > pay the price." It's us, Jerry. We demand those big houses, we have three > cars sitting in our driveways - all of them gas guzzlers. We demand cheap, > energy-burning toys like those jet skis, huge household appliances, a/c, > etc. Not only do we consider all these things our birthright, but we insist > on subsidizing the cost of energy. That is the real problem and until we > address that underlying problem, we are simply plugging leaks here and > there. > Oops.let me grab my soapbox and head for the hills before the brickbats, > start. :) > > maryanne dolan > Washington DC (and yes, I have a gas guzzler, too!) > ABTrowbridge@msn.com > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gerald & Laura Tarbell" > To: > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 10:29 AM > Subject: Re: [MDOSPREY] Open season on Horseshoe Crabbers & Birders? > > > > I don't think that handing a crabber a copy of a position statement > will > > change his mind about anything. The birding community has long taken a > stand > > on the harvest of horseshoe crabs ever since we discovered that their > > breeding season creates a staging area for migrating shorebirds and that > the > > numbers of crabs are declining. > > This is the same old story about people exploiting a resource to > > depletion and then wondering what happened to it. I call it the 19th > century > > mentality. That's when the exploitation of resources became accelerated to > a > > point that we suddenly were faced with conservation issues to save > anything. > > The whole notion that got us in this fix was that humans really believed > > that resources of Planet Earth were infinite and that we didn't have the > > wherewithal to seriously deplete them. About the time that we looked > around > > and noticed a lot of things going extinct we gradually bought into some > > conservation ideas. However, the last to buy into them are those directly > > affected - witness loggers in the northwest. > > That guy who started this whole thread by telling some birder to get > out > > of crab territory would probably tell you (even if he really knows better) > > that there has been no decline in the numbers of crabs and if there is, he > > would blame the damn birds that come and eat all the eggs every year. No > > position paper will ever change an attitude like that. DNR knows how > > everybody (interest groups, like us) feel about the issue and are caught > in > > the middle trying to keep us all happy. I wish them luck. > > My personal position is that there should be no horseshoe crab harvest > > whatsoever in any eastern waters until populations have recovered to their > > origianl abundance and that anyone caught with one in their possession > > should face very stiff penalties. But as usual I'm lying out here in the > > extremes. I doubt if anyone else on this web would dare to state or agree > > with such a radical position. How can we consider jailing somebody for > > possessing a crab? It would be like locking them up for shooting a spotted > > owl. Nobody would have the guts to try it. Instead they get a ticket , a > > scolding from a judge and a little fine. Has anyone ever really done time > > for destroying wildlife? > > > > Jerry > > > > ======================================================================= > > To leave the MDOsprey list, send e-mail to listserv@home.ease.lsoft.com > > with the following message in line 1: signoff mdosprey > > ======================================================================= > > > > ======================================================================= > To leave the MDOsprey list, send e-mail to listserv@home.ease.lsoft.com > with the following message in line 1: signoff mdosprey > ======================================================================= > ======================================================================= To leave the MDOsprey list, send e-mail to listserv@home.ease.lsoft.com with the following message in line 1: signoff mdosprey ======================================================================= =========================================================================